tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20399985.post8367367584947296079..comments2023-09-03T07:40:17.178-07:00Comments on you didn't hear it from me, but...: Toxic Avengerkdhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/04742191344612664986noreply@blogger.comBlogger25125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20399985.post-58220189014309215092010-03-31T23:46:18.872-07:002010-03-31T23:46:18.872-07:00i am going to sum up a bunch of stuff that deserve...i am going to sum up a bunch of stuff that deserves to be elaborated at a later time. I'm not sure if it's been written yet...<br /><br />the simplest is this: Irv, TK and Stork (mostly Stork, aka Dan Roddick) wrote the "Spirit of the Game" clause in 1978 and inserted it into the rules of ultimate (i believe this was edition 6 or 7). TK then founded the UPA in 1979. The two go hand in hand.<br /><br />Before that time, "spirit" was an unwritten honor code, and the rules of the game permitted referees. After 1979, ultimate was steered distinctly in one direction by its stringent moral code while being torn another direction by its competitive athletes<br /><br />I never thought KD was a cheater, one who would purposefully break or bend rules to his advantage, but i certainly can see him being a dubious Spirit of the Game adherent and there is little doubt that KD and by extension NYNY's revolutionary attitude stoked the flames of cheaters around the country<br /><br />But nonetheless the questions start to revolve around::<br /><br />1) should the Spirit rule be enforced and maintained as stringently as it is? (and behind its continued currency in modern times you will see the hidden guiding hands of those original authors, who still have sway and power within the UPA and the HoF)<br /><br />2) Should this Spirit rule have been inserted in the first place? If you like the Spirit rule and think it should stay -- then what does that mean for HoF candidacy?<br /><br />3) one could consider the Spirit rule to be an Amendment to the original constitution -- and a controversial one. But considering that all those playing at the time were aware of the rule, then it should have been abided as best as possible.<br /><br />It can be argued that KD (and others, note Mike Glass's omission from the HoF as well) did not follow the distinct rules of SOTG and were thus willful violators of one of the rules of the game and thus cheaters.<br /><br />Were they cheaters in a larger sense of trying to corrupt the playing field so irrevocably that opponents had no chance of winning? I dont think so. But if you were to break it down just to the Spirit rule, then the evidence is strong that they fail.<br /><br />My personal belief is that an impressive combination of other attributes, successes on and off the field, and specific contributions to teams, to the improvement of the game and to the culture of the sport outweigh the Spirit rule in consideration of the HoF and that Mike Glass, KD (and others) should be in the HoF. <br /><br />--Tonytony leonardohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08893373995657333074noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20399985.post-2864424518390057082010-03-31T13:34:26.905-07:002010-03-31T13:34:26.905-07:00Corey said: I think you SUNY education is showing....Corey said: I think you SUNY education is showing. (sic)<br /><br />I say: Written like a true SUNY man.<br /><br />Corey said: I assume he thinks KD doesn't hold a candle to either TK or Irv.<br /><br />I say: I refuse to believe someone would try to make such a simple point in such a stupid way.<br /> <br />-Chris Mc.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20399985.post-40241766469094193512010-03-31T11:19:27.538-07:002010-03-31T11:19:27.538-07:00To Chris Mc-
If this is either of the Chris Mc th...To Chris Mc-<br /><br />If this is either of the Chris Mc that I know I think you SUNY education is showing. The poster putting up the CV of Irv and Tom is being sarcastic. He thinks the thoughtful and well crafted posts of the many people here are just bloggers ranting. And I assume he thinks KD doesn't hold a candle to either TK or Irv. <br /><br />I think it's cute how he's being snarky while criticising Kenny's snarkiness. That is so classic frisbee player. Saying how he doesn't like something someone else is doing while he's doing it himself.Coreynoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20399985.post-9435262226449268902010-03-31T11:13:05.683-07:002010-03-31T11:13:05.683-07:00Oops, I meant you're complaining that the stuf...Oops, I meant you're complaining that the stuff Henry is reporting is supposed to be "confidential", not "anonymous." Plus, as I trimmed a longer comment to get under the character limit, I did some poor editing in the pedantic/petty/innuendo part. The pedantic and petty part is your word-for-word analysis of sentences to which you object --- look, he said Championships PLURAL, that means MORE THAN ONE! --- whereas the innuendo part is where you imply that people (including Henry) are biased against you, instead of just saying "Henry is biased against me." (But maybe you do say that somewhere. Please, don't ask me to read more of your long diatribes). <br /><br />I still think you belong in the Hall, but you're making it really hard to root for you to make it. Of course I know what you'll say: "I don't care if you want me to make it or not."Phil Pricenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20399985.post-54916014752333630432010-03-31T09:40:24.738-07:002010-03-31T09:40:24.738-07:00Ken,
Yeah, the late nineties, those were some g...Ken,<br /> Yeah, the late nineties, those were some good days. I promise: tonight, as I sit by the fire smoking my pipe, slippers on my feet and faithful old dog by my side, waiting for my 8:30 bedtime to roll around, I'll hoist a glass of sherry in the direction of my old black-and-white photo of us sitting at a bar at Worlds in '99, arms around each other's shoulder and smiles on our faces, and I'll drink a toast to auld lang syne. <br /><br />I didn't know that you've been accused of cheating in Nationals Finals games. It's hard to believe you would have cheated in a significant way in Finals, which after all is the most intensely watched game in the sport, and even in the Nineties sometimes had dozens of spectators, not all of them drunk or high. <br /><br />The Ken Dobyns who is posting now seems really different from the one I remember. I'm pretty sure I remember the old Ken Dobyns saying New York New York had only three players deserving of the Hall of Fame, and that he (old Ken Dobyns) wasn't one of them. I couldn't find that quote in several minutes of searching, but I did find this one from only eighteen months ago: "I’m hopeful that my numerous spirit violations won’t keep me out of the most hallowed institution our sport can claim, but I am prepared to suffer the consequences of my actions humbly and without recrimination." Boy, what ever happened to the guy who wrote THAT? <br /><br />I hope you'll forgive me for not knowing all of the details. I'll share some of my impressions, while admitting that I don't have all the facts and have no interest in spending half an hour reading to collect them:<br /><br />1. You complain that you're not in the HoF, you complain that you don't know why...so Henry tells you why, and then you complain that Henry is spreading information that is supposed to be anonymous. For cryin' out loud. <br /><br />2. You're parsing sentences and dissecting words like a Rabbinical scholar: Henry wrote "revile" rather than "deplore", does that prove that he's biased against you? "Judge for yourself." Yeah, really, this is worth discussing?<br /><br />3. Argument by innuendo seem pedantic and petty, as well as a bit craven. If you think specific other HoF voters are biased against you, say who they are and why you think they're biased. <br /><br />4. It looks like you devoted a whole post to dissecting the meaning of the word "cheating" (again, the Rabbinical scholar) and concluding that everybody cheats so it's unreasonable to hold cheating against you. (Or something; I confess, I only skimmed this.) You also posted something a while ago in which you talked about ripping a disc out of another player's hand to deprive him of a goal, more or less bragged about it, and said you're not sorry. You've gone out of your way to thumb your nose at anyone who thinks 'spirit' or even sportsmanship has the least bit of relevance. So it's a bit rich for you to be shocked to be accused of cheating. <br /><br />5. Outrage is easy. It seems like everybody is outraged. Tiger Woods was outraged that people accused his wife of trying to beat him with a golf club. Floyd Landis was outraged that people accused him of cheating in the Tour de France. I get it that you're outraged. What I want to know is whether you were a cheater. That is a completely different question. It is one you have touched on, only obliquely, in only a few of the hundreds of your sentences I have read. To me, it's the only one that matters, when it comes to whether you should be in the Hall. <br /><br />6. If you do want to get into the Hall of Fame, here's my advice. Drop all the bullshit. Instead, get a bunch of your former fierce competitors to step up and say publicly that they played against you in important, hard-fought, close games, and that you weren't a cheater. If they won't, try to live up to your own promise, and "suffer the consequences of [your] actions humbly and without recrimination."Phil Pricenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20399985.post-61297663332204637082010-03-31T08:54:57.055-07:002010-03-31T08:54:57.055-07:00You're right, Dan. I am a shitheel.You're right, Dan. I am a shitheel.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20399985.post-34486500864956554392010-03-31T05:15:52.481-07:002010-03-31T05:15:52.481-07:00Anonymous poster,
You are a mouthbreathing shithe...Anonymous poster,<br /><br />You are a mouthbreathing shitheel. You scrabble about the intertubes with insinuations and smears with no facts behind them at all about steroids. "But Ken bulked up in the age range when all men who exercise bulk up! I'm not saying he took steroids or nothing, i'm just asking the question!"<br /><br />Were someone to do this with their name behind it, that would be bad. But the name at least would allow for scrutiny, reflection, some discussion as to whether or not that person was qualified to make such inflammatory accusations without proof. <br /><br />But without a name? You're just a internet shitheel. If i was ken, i'd remove everything that comes out of your keyboard without comment going forward and/or block your IP, if that's possible (actually, do you have access to the IP Ken? If you do, start by posting that).<br />Dan MurphyAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20399985.post-29791255646942908802010-03-30T18:19:13.171-07:002010-03-30T18:19:13.171-07:00from an earlier post: straightforward question, th...from an earlier post: straightforward question, that deserves a straightforward answer. <br /><br />"Forget steroids. Here is another question? Do you think it is cheating to intentionally grab someone's wrist when they are about to throw to an open receiver? I mean with real intent, so that is obvious to everyone nearby that the defender deliberately stopped a big up-field throw by clenching the thrower's arm before he could release?"Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20399985.post-16475076815498564192010-03-30T17:10:13.444-07:002010-03-30T17:10:13.444-07:00Phil,
Good to have you back. It's been too lo...Phil,<br /><br />Good to have you back. It's been too long.<br /><br />First off, boy are you ever right. The writing of late has been weak. Trying to write too much in too short a time and all on the same subject (or a small set of sub-subjects of that subject) is generally a recipe for mediocrity at best. <br /><br />At the same time, I can't say your reading has really improved over time either. <br /><br />"All the thousands of words you've written, and you won't tell us plainly, did you or did you not cheat regularly?"<br /><br />If you limited yourself only to the most recent post (a mere 3000 words) you would find that I called that cheating accusation against me beyond the pale, outrageous, possibly libelous, and totally false. <br /><br />That ought to clear it up for you.<br /><br />As for the Guido play, I can't see where I imply that I did it regularly. Seems to me I make it pretty clear it was a one time occurrence. But you're right about the 1 out of 10 part sounding a little whiny. I was using the process as an illustration of what I believe to be an unconscious bias on Henry's part. I guess that didn't come through either, huh?<br /><br />Oh well, there's always tomorrow.<br /><br />It is good to have you back, though. Those were some fun times back in the day, drinking bourbon, cracking wise about girlfriends and making penis jokes. Life was simpler then.kdhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04742191344612664986noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20399985.post-84185095319454779852010-03-30T16:45:28.138-07:002010-03-30T16:45:28.138-07:00Why would you call TK a schlub?
-Chris Mc.Why would you call TK a schlub?<br /><br />-Chris Mc.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20399985.post-41914283677696540532010-03-30T15:02:38.309-07:002010-03-30T15:02:38.309-07:00Look at this Irv fellow. He looks like one of tho...Look at this Irv fellow. He looks like one of those spirity do-gooder guys, doing things for the sport and for other ultimate players (while winning championships). When has he ever written anything amusing and snarky and self-centerd and amusingly snarky all at the same time and published it on the interwebs. <br /> <br />Or how about this schlub: <br /><br />Tom “TK” Kennedy was the founder of the UPA in 1979 and its first National Director. TK was an active player of all disc sports throughout the 1970s and was the driving force behind the growth of Ultimate in the western states. He was a founding member, captain and coach of the Santa Barbara Condors, a team that dominated West Coast Ultimate play for many years starting in 1975. The Condors won three of the first five U.S. national championships in 1977, 1978 and 1981. As a player, TK dominated the national spotlight while competing in the five-region national championship series that he established in 1979, bridging the gap between West and East Coast Ultimate. During his playing career and in the years since he retired in the early 1980s, TK has received the respect of all his peers as he always embodied, through word and deed, “The Spirit of the Game.” <br />Playing Career <br />• Tom is one of the founding fathers of Ultimate, having started the sport on the West Coast. He first started playing pick-up games in Santa Barbara in 1974. Two years later the Condors were playing competitively, and in 1977 the team won its first national title, defeating Penn State at the Rose Bowl in front of 60,000 fans. <br />• In 1978 the Condors defended their championship in Santa Barbara against Cornell. During these years Tom was widely recognized as not only the finest Ultimate player but also the best disc golfer and one of the best all-round Frisbee Players. <br />• In 1979, Tom was instrumental in helping to establish the UPA, bringing together five regional champions for the club championships at Penn State. The Condors lost in the finals to Glassboro, which at the time was a monumental upset, as the Condors had gone undefeated for nearly two years and had crushed the ‘Boro in round-robin play. The ‘Boro would prove to be no fluke, however, as they repeated as champions in 1980, with TK and the Condors placing fourth. <br />• In 1981 TK and the team rebounded and won their third national title, their first under the UPA banner. TK continued to play at a high level until 1984, when a knee injury cut short his playing career. <br />• He helped establish the co-ed program at UCSB and the club team, The Black Tide, which went on to become a dominant force in college Ultimate. Perhaps most importantly, TK embodied the underlying “Spirit of the Game” both on and off the field. He never put himself first; it was always what was best for the team and for the sport of Ultimate. <br />• He was also active in the community, promoting Ultimate at local high schools and giving workshops for the Special Olympics. As teammates and opponents from that time will attest, TK was the most important and influential player of his generation. <br />• Tom and the Condors also won four straight World Flying Disc Championships (1980), which at that time was the largest and most prestigious Ultimate tournament in the western states. Tom and the Condors also won numerous California State Championships (including four straight from 1980-84) and the Solstice tournament in Eugene, Ore., where he captained teams with mostly rookies from UCSB and led them to impressive victories. <br />Contributions and Service <br />• First National Director of the Ultimate Players Association (UPA) regional coordinator; 1979-82 <br />• Founder and team captain of the Santa Barbara Condors, 1974-84 <br />• One of the founders of the UCSB Club team, The Black Tide, which he coached from 1984-85 <br />• Spent a 10-week tour of Japan in 1978 to introduce and promote various disc sports <br />• Demonstrations at high schools, Special Olympics, 1984 Los Angeles, and at a California State Penitentiary<br />• Co-authored the book, Ultimate: Fundamentals of the Sport, with Irv Kalb in 1982Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20399985.post-40716706100801646582010-03-30T14:14:54.775-07:002010-03-30T14:14:54.775-07:00Anon at 12:48,
Irv Kalb was in the inaugural clas...Anon at 12:48,<br /><br />Irv Kalb was in the inaugural class of the HoF. What exactly is your problem with Mr. Kalb?<br /><br />You say you agree with Kenneth, yet you propose a system of bloggers deciding the HoF. At what point did Mr. Dobyns propose this? I may have missed it. It's an intriguing idea, similar to the BBWAA voting on the baseball HoF.<br /><br />You also put a lot of venom towards "shamsters" and "stupid volunteers". Why do you feel this way? Have you had bad experiences with shamsters and stupid volunteers?<br /><br />I've read some thoughtful writing on blogs written by "volunteers". I've had some difficult dealings with "volunteers". Maybe because I have been a volunteer (and a "blogger"!), I know how imperfect both groups can be, and how much potential both groups have. It helps to think critically when reading blogs, dealing with volunteers and sharing your opinion. <br /><br />-Chris Mc.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20399985.post-83214816573873672442010-03-30T12:57:39.010-07:002010-03-30T12:57:39.010-07:00From the anonymous poster (who remains anonymous) ...From the anonymous poster (who remains anonymous) in response to my asking for specifics related to my honesty:<br /><br />"You still have other issues you continue to deflect. What I meant by not being honest is mostly about being straight with yourself. Your defenses are so acutely on guard that you do not seem for a moment to consider feedback that might have some meaning or truth. Instead, in all of these exchanges, you go off, just like you always have, on why someone else is an ass, or jealous, or ignorant, or a pussy. Its Henry, its the voters, its the UPA. You externalize, and it is weak."<br /><br />Again, if I may ask you for some specificity. Where have I gone off and called someone an ass? It's true, Kyle Weisbrod called me an ass, and in taking exception to it I used the word "ass." Is that what you mean?<br /><br />And where did I call someone a pussy? It's true, someone told a story from many years ago where I am reported to have said people who wear braces are pussies, but that wasn't something I posted or wrote in response to anyone who criticized me.<br /><br />As for Henry, I have commended him for his honesty while questioning his judgment, and I have accused him of being irresponsible with information. I don't remember calling him any of the names you mentioned. <br /><br />You say that I go off in all of these exchanges, like I always have, but I don't actually see, even in re-reading, where I have gone off (maybe to Jim on the Babs issue, but I was defending a teammate, and Jim has since recanted). In truth, I think you are conflating stories of me on the field with my writing on my blog, because while I do tend to take people to task for their words and actions, I generally do so without using insults or profanity. As for the accusation of externalizing, I have said all along that I am taking exception with the HoF process, a process that is external to me. How can I address that process without externalizing? <br /><br />I'm sorry that you think I'm being dishonest with myself, and that you feel compelled to characterize my efforts here as weak. I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree, because I really don't see much in your feedback worthy of consideration as being especially truthful or meaningful.<br /><br />I have to go now, but I'll respond to the other untruths and insinuations from your feedback later.kdhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04742191344612664986noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20399985.post-86239212178607617482010-03-30T12:48:17.008-07:002010-03-30T12:48:17.008-07:00I think Kenneth is right. Let's take these sha...I think Kenneth is right. Let's take these shamsters on one at a time. We deserve a better Hall of Fame and we want it immediately, regardless of how much flogging it takes of these stupid volunteers running this joint. Let's use a system of bloggers to replace 'em all. Power to the posters. <br /><br /><br />We don't want to recognize guys like this below -- we want guys whose arms don't touch their sides.<br /><br />------------<br /><br /><br />Irv Kalb was one of the early stars of the game, as captain of the Columbia High School team in 1971-72 (with a record of 19-0) and of college champion Rutgers University from 1972-76 (with a record of 45-1). He also won a freestyle championship with Stork Roddick in 1975. Irv was an avid organizer of Ultimate at high schools and colleges in the early 1970s, was co-coordinator of the first multi-team tournament at Yale in 1975, and oversaw the development of the rules of the game from 1971-82. Together with Larry Schindel, he was the “Johnny Appleseed” of Ultimate. Irv was always tireless in his pursuit of on-field excellence, faithful in his promotion of the game, and diligent in his preservation of the game’s history. Through the 1970s he authored numerous articles on Ultimate and co-authored the book, Ultimate: Fundamentals of the Sport, with Tom Kennedy in 1982.<br /><br />Playing Career<br /><br />• 1970 Richmond Avenue Gang<br /><br />• 1970-1972 Columbia High School Varsity Frisbee Team (Captain 1971-1972)<br /><br />• 1972-1976 Rutgers University (Captain 1972-1976)<br /><br />• Late 1970s Woodland Hills Hot Sox, Santa Barbara Condors<br /><br />As captain of CHSVFT, the team went 19-0. As captain of Rutgers, the team went 45-1 (with 44 straight). Irv was named to the “1973-74 Ultimate All-American Squad” chosen by college captains.<br /><br />US National Championship Tournaments<br /><br />Team City Year Venue Final Placing<br />Rutgers New Brunswick, N.J. 1973 — Consensus Champion<br />Rutgers New Brunswick, N.J. 1974 — Consensus Champion<br />Rutgers New Brunswick, N.J. 1975 Yale University First Place<br />Rutgers New Brunswick, N.J. 1976 Hampshire College First Place<br /><br /><br />Contributions and Service<br /><br />• Wrote the third through the eighth editions of the Rules of Ultimate<br /><br />• Coordinator of the first Ultimate league, the New Jersey Frisbee Conference in 1971-72<br /><br />• Coordinator of the first Ultimate National Championship at Yale University in 1975<br /><br />• Wrote numerous articles in the 1970s and 1980s on Ultimate that appeared in Frisbee magazines<br /><br />• Generally involved in every organizational development of Ultimate in the 1970s<br /><br />• Co-authored the book, Ultimate: Fundamentals of the Sport, with Tom Kennedy in 1982<br /><br />Other Accomplishments<br /><br />Irv won the National and World Freestyle Championships with Dan Roddick in 1975. Playing with the Foothill Institute of Frisbee Culture, he won the National Guts Championships in 1977 and 1978.<br /><br />Personal Life<br /><br />Irv lives in Mountain View, Calif with his wife, Doreen and is a computer programmer.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20399985.post-32209475125555702082010-03-30T12:39:29.600-07:002010-03-30T12:39:29.600-07:00A few years ago, when I first read this blog, I th...A few years ago, when I first read this blog, I thought "boy, who knew the homunculus could write so well?" (No offense.) But I haven't been back much --- only looked once, I think, back when you posted that below-the-belt attack on Parinella --- and now, I hardly recognize the place. Even leaving aside the content, the style is inferior to the way you used to write, or at least to the way I remember your writing. These recent posts, I can't even figure out what your point is. I mean, take a look at what you say here: <br />====<br />[Henry writes] 'KD was widely reviled for his misconduct while simultaneously admired for his ability and tenacity.' <br /><br />As a point of word choice, specifically related to connotative as opposed to denotative meanings, consider the contrast of “reviled” and “admired,” or revulsion and admiration. Is revulsion more negative than admiration is positive? Come to your own conclusion. <br />=====<br /><br />One conclusion I come to is that Ken Dobyns can't write a simple declarative sentence. Another is that you are reading an awful lot --- too much --- into word choice in a blog comment. <br /><br />So, fine, your writing has gone downhill since the good ol' days. But what about the content? This is what really has me baffled. I'm pretty sure I remember you expressing disdain (years ago) for the whole concept of an Ultimate Hall of Fame, and stating clearly that you have no interest in being in it. And now here you are, whining like a small child (albeit one with a large vocabulary and a whole lot of time on his hands), Mommy, Mommy, he only gave me 1 point out of 10 for 'spirit', make him take it back! It's pathetic.<br /><br />I have been, and remain, a supporter of you, Ken Dobyns, for the Hall of Fame. You were clearly one of the best players in the game for your prime, and your prime lasted a pretty long time. And you were one of the best team leaders of your era, too. So it seemed ridiculous not to have you in the Hall. It seems less so now, having read your piece where you bragged about deliberately ripping the disc out of another player's hand, and implied that you did this sort of thing regularly. If that's true, you don't belong in the Hall. I happen to believe that you didn't do this sort of thing regularly and that you do belong in the Hall. All the thousands of words you've written, and you won't tell us plainly, did you or did you not cheat regularly? (And no, I do not mean did you occasionally knowingly drag your foot when you threw a long pass, or did you sometimes fail to give a disc width when you were marking; get serious). <br /><br />As I said, I still think -- lacking evidence that you were in fact as big a cheater as you were happy to imply back before the whining started --- that you belong in the Hall of Fame. But if you don't make it, it won't be one of the biggest 100,000 injustices of the year. I'm a lot more bummed about Buck O'Neil not making the Baseball HoF, and his case wasn't even as good as yours, it's just that he was a much more admirable person than you.Phil Pricenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20399985.post-35480315558848527952010-03-30T12:11:36.934-07:002010-03-30T12:11:36.934-07:00whew! Whaddaya gonna do with these horrible UPA/H...whew! Whaddaya gonna do with these horrible UPA/HOF people. Not only are they incompetent, it looks like they're actually evil. Can we dock their pay or something or get them fired maybe ?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20399985.post-35523169477784867572010-03-30T11:16:55.677-07:002010-03-30T11:16:55.677-07:00are implying that some of the old school frisbee p...are implying that some of the old school frisbee players played the game while smoking pot? an illegal drug? how dare you impugn these HoFers with your unproven, slanderous accusations of drug use!<br /><br />those are obviously only meant for kenny.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20399985.post-73612144732275050082010-03-30T11:12:57.400-07:002010-03-30T11:12:57.400-07:00"Fun fact, the anti-doping regulations prohib..."Fun fact, the anti-doping regulations prohibit "cannabinoids""<br /><br />I heard a rumor (unsubstantiated) that Kenny also practiced cannibalismAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20399985.post-34367360996493169082010-03-30T10:36:10.395-07:002010-03-30T10:36:10.395-07:00Regarding steroids not being illegal in ultimate: ...Regarding steroids not being illegal in ultimate: The WFDF adopted an anti-doping policy in 2003, so everyone who has played Worlds or other WFDF events since then was technically under anti-steroid rule. Not that that necessarily applies to you since the vast majority of your play was before then, just saying.<br /><br />Fun fact, the anti-doping regulations prohibit "cannabinoids"Unknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03952643592754293250noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20399985.post-14946150870932755632010-03-30T09:50:06.649-07:002010-03-30T09:50:06.649-07:00For what it's worth, as the person who asked t...For what it's worth, as the person who asked the question, I have no idea if the HOF voters even considered this allegation. I highly doubt it - seems like they had plenty of other personal anecdotes coming in that were based on others experiences with you, not speculative theories. <br /><br />But it has been a question in the community for years. And you did go through a physical transformation in the mid-later 80's that many of us noticed, whether you admit it or not, where your neck and upper body body expanded and morphed. The other symptoms were there too (rage, pock marks). So the questions were asked, by many. No fun for you, but that is what has happened.<br /><br />You say you never used them. Fine. Thank you. Some of your teammates have implied the opposite of your claim. Whatever. You say you didn't, there is not way to prove it, either way. It's done.<br /><br />You still have other issues you continue to deflect. What I meant by not being honest is mostly about being straight with yourself. Your defenses are so acutely on guard that you do not seem for a moment to consider feedback that might have some meaning or truth. Instead, in all of these exchanges, you go off, just like you always have, on why someone else is an ass, or jealous, or ignorant, or a pussy. Its Henry, its the voters, its the UPA. You externalize, and it is weak.<br /><br />Forget steroids. Here is another question? Do you think it is cheating to intentionally grab someone's wrist when they are about to throw to an open receiver? I mean with real intent, so that is obvious to everyone nearby that the defender deliberately stopped a big up-field throw by clenching the thrower's arm before he could release?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20399985.post-56434279359660529102010-03-30T08:59:48.095-07:002010-03-30T08:59:48.095-07:00As one of "HoF is a sham without kd" peo...As one of "HoF is a sham without kd" people, I realize that my argument seems simplistic and emotional at best. And I know kd is not interested in, nor does he need, any people to say how great a player they think he was. To be honest, I have no interest in that either. I never played with or against and I only saw him play once. Yes, based on records, championships and anecdotal evidence, I have to wonder, how is he not in the HoF? Does this make me question his career (as I think Henry said it would, hence his attempt at justifying his vote) or the Ultimate HoF?<br /><br />I questioned the credibility of a HoF from the instant it was announced. Any "Hall of Fame" is an arrogant and egotistic exercise at best. So if you're going to do it, if you're going to put your credibility up there and say to the world, these are the people that our sport thinks deserve recognition for their accomplishments, then it had better be a process that is transparent and legitimate. And you're going to have to prove to me (every year) that that's the case, that I should respect the HoF as an institution, that I should respect the people that you elect as members for their accomplishments. <br /><br />Ultimate has been striving for legitimacy as a sport and the establishment of the HoF seems like another attempt at saying Hey look at me! Look at our great players that are worthy of recognition! Now, is there anything wrong with that? It's fine to celebrate Ultimate and the sport and the great players and people that have contributed to it, but it's very easy for it to become a self-congratulating, masturbatory club of insiders. Ultimate has no audience, no reporters, no outside objective voice (like the baseball writers) to validate and vote on a player/contributor's career. We only have players (and friends and enemies and acquaintances) voting on each other. As has been amply demonstrated, we do not have an objective and fair process for deciding admittance. <br /><br />The most serious point here is not that kd is not in the HoF. I think it is far worse that the HoF is defending its legitimacy and credibility by attacking that of kd. It's shameful and embarrassing. <br /><br />/DrewDrewhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02786132079371590298noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20399985.post-76043151178940006562010-03-30T08:36:38.923-07:002010-03-30T08:36:38.923-07:00Should be tktktkt"and ANYONE took it seriousl...Should be tktktkt"and ANYONE took it seriously?" AND tktktk "a number of voters." Me, self-edit, bad.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20399985.post-20661939552985262702010-03-30T08:17:17.439-07:002010-03-30T08:17:17.439-07:00I would be furious too. Some anonymous guy gets to...I would be furious too. Some anonymous guy gets to make a laughable, unsupported claim (i'm presuming he wasn't pulling down Ken's pants in the bathroom at CBGBs for a little pre-slam dance warmup and still has the needle to prove it) and ANYONE took it seriously. <br /><br />Though, to be fair: Was HOF Official merely being a bureaucratic weenie in his conversation with you, or did he indicate that a number of voter's actually took that bullshit seriously? <br />Dan MurphyAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20399985.post-61927304862601524012010-03-30T05:53:36.723-07:002010-03-30T05:53:36.723-07:00Doing steroids in baseball could garner you millio...Doing steroids in baseball could garner you millions of dollars in contracts and endorsement money as well as the respect and admiration of millions of people.<br /><br />Doing steroids in Ultimate earns you the right to spend thousands of your own money going to tournaments and the respect and admiration of dozens of people.<br /><br />Clearly the same thingAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20399985.post-85723716668168639852010-03-29T21:31:56.702-07:002010-03-29T21:31:56.702-07:00To the anonymous poster to the "Jelly Doughnu...To the anonymous poster to the "Jelly Doughnut" piece:<br /><br />You asked a question I had already answered, so I just posted. Still, so there isn't any question in your mind, I have never taken steroids.<br /><br />I had read in the past, on rsd and maybe on comments to my blog, mentions of me and steroids. I always thought they were jokes. You know, beefy guy with a temper - must be on 'roids, haha. It wasn't until the conversation with The Official that I realized that people were actually serious. How pathetic.<br /><br />I was surprised that you stressed in your previous comment (mentioning it at least twice) that you wanted me to be honest. I always strive to be honest, although I do occasionally engage in sarcasm for amusement, and periodically embellish for effect. But I should point out that by emphasizing the desire for honesty as you did, the suggestion is that you think I have been dishonest in the past. If it isn't too much trouble, can you clarify that for me? I would kind of hate to be called a liar in my own blog. Know what I mean?kdhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04742191344612664986noreply@blogger.com